「政倫審」泉房穂さんと考える なぜ自民党は「非公開」を主張?岸田総理の本音は?【スーパーJチャンネル】(2024年2月27日)

ANNnewsCH
27 Feb 202407:14

Summary

TLDRThe transcript discusses the reasons behind the Liberal Democratic Party's (LDP) insistence on confidentiality and the public's demand for transparency. It highlights that historically, complete non-disclosure has only occurred once in eight instances. The speaker suggests that the debate on public versus private should start with the questioning of witnesses, which should be open to the public. There is a call for a third-party investigation committee to handle the investigation and for politicians to focus on budget discussions and policy-making. The speaker expresses disappointment in the traditional political back-and-forth and emphasizes the need for decisive leadership, particularly from Prime Minister Kishida, to address national concerns and prevent future occurrences. The summary underscores the importance of a thorough investigation, assigning responsibility, and implementing preventive measures to ensure such issues do not recur.

Takeaways

  • 🤔 The Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) is emphasizing non-disclosure, which is a point of contention. Historically, complete non-disclosure has only occurred once in eight instances, suggesting that the current stance may be more about negotiation tactics than a firm policy.
  • 📢 The debate over disclosure versus non-disclosure should ideally start with public witness questioning, as this would naturally lead to transparency.
  • 🗓️ There is confusion and chaos regarding the schedule for the upcoming session, with even the LDP expressing dissatisfaction with the current state of affairs.
  • 📽️ Some members of the LDP are open to partial disclosure, allowing for camera recording at the beginning, but the reasons for not fully disclosing everything remain unclear.
  • 🚫 There is a strong resistance from certain individuals within the party against full disclosure, which is causing a deadlock in decision-making.
  • 🗣️ The public and even journalists expect transparency and are frustrated with the lack of clear communication from the party.
  • 👮‍♂️ There is a call for a third-party investigation committee to handle the matter thoroughly and allow politicians to focus on their legislative duties.
  • 💰 The underlying issue seems to be a negotiation involving the budget, raising concerns about whether political discussions are truly centered around the national interest.
  • 👑 Prime Minister Kishida is seen as having the guiding authority to make a decisive decision on the matter, with expectations for a bold and sincere approach.
  • 🤝 There is an expectation for the Prime Minister to lead with decisiveness, especially in matters that affect the livelihood of the citizens.
  • 📉 The current situation is seen as a regression to old-fashioned politics, which is viewed as regrettable. There is a desire for a more modern and transparent approach to political discussions.
  • 🛠️ It is suggested that establishing a third-party investigation from the outset could have been a better approach, and there is a call for a comprehensive investigation to prevent similar issues in the future.

Q & A

  • Why does the Liberal Democratic Party emphasize non-disclosure?

    -The script suggests that the Liberal Democratic Party's emphasis on non-disclosure might be due to internal pressures and historical precedents, with complete non-disclosure only occurring once in eight instances in the past. However, the exact reasons are not clear without direct inquiry from the party members themselves.

  • What is the significance of starting with a public witness questioning?

    -Starting with public witness questioning is significant as it sets the expectation of transparency from the beginning. It implies that if there are witnesses to be questioned, the process should be open to the public, ensuring openness and accountability.

  • Why is there confusion regarding the schedule for the upcoming session?

    -The confusion stems from the ongoing negotiations and the lack of a set schedule. The script mentions that even as the date has been announced, there is still uncertainty due to the opposition's actions and the chaotic situation on the ground.

  • What are the voices within the Liberal Democratic Party regarding the level of disclosure?

    -There seems to be a divide within the party. While some members are open to partial disclosure and allowing camera filming, others are strongly against any form of disclosure, although the exact reasons for their opposition are not specified.

  • What is the role of the Prime Minister in resolving the issue of disclosure?

    -The Prime Minister, in this case, Mr. Kishida, is expected to take a decisive role in guiding the party towards a resolution. There is an expectation for him to make a firm decision that considers both the public's right to know and the party's stance on non-disclosure.

  • What is the speaker's view on the current state of politics as depicted in the script?

    -The speaker expresses disappointment at the continuation of what they perceive as old-fashioned politics. They suggest that the focus should be on substantive issues like budget discussions rather than on procedural matters like disclosure.

  • Why is the establishment of a third-party investigation committee suggested?

    -The speaker suggests a third-party investigation committee to handle the investigation and fact-finding, allowing politicians to focus on their primary roles of budget review and law-making. This would also help in preventing a situation where politicians are investigating themselves.

  • What is the importance of a thorough investigation into the matter?

    -A thorough investigation is crucial for understanding the full extent of the issue, assigning responsibility where it's due, and implementing measures to prevent recurrence. It is seen as a necessary step before any meaningful action or decision can be taken.

  • What is the speaker's opinion on the effectiveness of witness questioning?

    -The speaker expresses skepticism about the effectiveness of witness questioning, noting that many cases end without resolution when witnesses claim not to remember. They advocate for a more structured approach through a third-party investigation.

  • What historical precedent is mentioned regarding the handling of similar situations?

    -The speaker refers to the Kōno Statement, where a third-party investigation was conducted, leading to changes in the electoral system. This is cited as an example of how Japan has effectively handled similar situations in the past.

  • What is the speaker's view on the concept of 'sincerity' in the context of the discussion?

    -The speaker believes that the concept of 'sincerity' should be treated as an exceptional circumstance rather than the norm. They suggest that lying should not be tolerated, and that there should be consequences for such actions, especially in a political context.

  • What is the speaker's final recommendation for moving forward with the issue?

    -The speaker recommends that the investigation should not stop at the current stage but should continue. They emphasize that the current situation is just the starting point, and there is a need for a more in-depth discussion and a thorough investigation to reach a resolution.

Outlines

00:00

🤔 Concerns Over LDP's Preference for Non-Disclosure

The first paragraph discusses the LDP's (Liberal Democratic Party) insistence on non-disclosure and the public's desire for transparency. It mentions that historically, complete non-disclosure has only occurred once in eight instances, suggesting that the party is not entirely against openness. The speaker expresses the opinion that if there were to be a witness inquiry, it should be public by default. There's also a critique of the current situation, indicating that the LDP is causing confusion and that even within the party, there's a sense that things are not going well. The speaker calls for a more decisive approach to governance, with a focus on the budget and national issues rather than internal party politics.

05:01

📢 The Need for Full Disclosure and Accountability

The second paragraph emphasizes the necessity of full disclosure to understand the entire situation and to hold those responsible accountable. The speaker believes that without a complete understanding, it's not possible to prevent such incidents from happening again. There's a call for a third-party investigation to clarify all aspects and for the Diet (Japanese parliament) to focus on its primary duties such as budget review and law-making. The paragraph also touches on the importance of learning from past incidents, like the Curtis case, where a third-party investigation led to electoral system reforms.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Self-Defense Forces

The Self-Defense Forces (SDF) is Japan's national defense organization. In the script, it is mentioned as a topic of discussion, indicating that it's a significant part of the dialogue concerning national security and policy.

💡Public Disclosure

Public Disclosure refers to the act of making information available to the public. The script discusses the debate over whether certain information should be disclosed or kept confidential, which is central to the theme of transparency and public trust.

💡Liberal Democratic Party (LDP)

The Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) is a major political party in Japan. The script mentions the LDP's stance on public disclosure, highlighting the party's role in the political discourse and decision-making process.

💡National Acceptance

National Acceptance implies gaining approval or satisfaction from the citizens of a nation. The transcript discusses how to achieve national acceptance, which is crucial for the legitimacy and support of government actions.

💡Witness Summons

Witness Summons is a legal process where individuals are officially requested to appear and provide testimony. The script suggests that if witness summons were initially used, it would have naturally led to public disclosure.

💡Parliamentary Debate

Parliamentary Debate refers to discussions and arguments that take place within a legislative body. The script touches on the importance of parliamentary debate for budget review and policy-making, emphasizing the role of elected officials in government.

💡Third-Party Investigation

A Third-Party Investigation involves an independent entity conducting an inquiry or examination. The transcript suggests the establishment of a third-party committee for a thorough investigation, which would allow for unbiased examination of issues.

💡Budget Review

Budget Review is the process of examining and discussing a government's budget proposals. The script implies that the focus should be on budget review and policy discussion, which are fundamental duties of parliament members.

💡Political Ethics

Political Ethics refers to the moral principles that guide the conduct of politicians. The transcript discusses the continuation of traditional politics and the importance of adhering to political ethics in decision-making.

💡Constitutional Review

Constitutional Review is the examination of the constitutionality of a law or action. The script mentions the basis of approval summons under Article 62 of the constitution, indicating the importance of constitutional adherence in governance.

💡Accountability

Accountability is the obligation to report, explain, and be responsible for one's actions. The transcript emphasizes the need for those responsible to be held accountable after a full disclosure of the situation.

💡Policy-making

Policy-making is the process of creating and formulating policies that guide governmental actions. The script suggests that policy-making should be a primary focus for politicians, separate from the current political squabbles.

Highlights

The Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) emphasizes the importance of confidentiality, but historically, complete non-disclosure has only occurred once in eight instances.

Discussions on public disclosure versus confidentiality should ideally begin with witness questioning, which is naturally a public process.

There is confusion and chaos in the current situation, with the opposition party also pushing for their demands, causing delays in decision-making.

Even within the LDP, there are voices expressing that the situation is becoming untenable, indicating internal dissatisfaction.

Some members within the party are open to partial disclosure, but the stance of the remaining members is unclear, suggesting a lack of consensus.

The public is expected to demand a full explanation and accountability from those responsible after understanding the complete situation.

The speaker suggests that a third-party investigation committee should be established to thoroughly investigate and delegate the responsibility to prevent recurrence.

The importance of maintaining the original role of politicians in budget review and law-making is emphasized, separate from the investigation process.

The speaker expresses disappointment in the continuation of traditional politics and calls for a more rational approach.

There is an expectation for Prime Minister Kishida to take decisive action and leadership in resolving the issue.

The Prime Minister's true intentions regarding public disclosure are questioned, with a call for more transparency.

The historical context of non-disclosure in parliamentary history is discussed, highlighting the rarity of complete non-disclosure.

The public's trust is considered crucial, and it is suggested that without a full disclosure, the public will not be satisfied.

The idea of starting with a constitutional basis for questioning witnesses is proposed as a better initial approach.

The potential for memory issues during witness questioning is acknowledged, emphasizing the need for thorough third-party investigation.

The importance of establishing a system where politicians do not have to judge their own actions to prevent a collapse in the political system is discussed.

The speaker references past instances, such as the Curtis incident, where third-party involvement led to significant changes in the electoral system.

The concept of 'kokkenshin' (sincerity) is discussed as an exceptional situation rather than the norm, suggesting it should be treated as such.

The upcoming session is viewed not as the end but as the beginning of a continued discussion and investigation into the matter.

Transcripts

play00:00

今日は泉さんそして知記者にはなぜ自民党

play00:03

は非公開を主張するのか総理は公開したい

play00:05

のかしたくないのかどうすれば国民は納得

play00:08

するのかというこの3つのテーマについて

play00:09

お伺いをしていきますえまず泉さんどうし

play00:13

て自民党はこう非公開にこうこだわるんだ

play00:16

と思いますでもこれもね成林士も過去見て

play00:19

も完全非公開なんてのは8回中1回だけ

play00:21

ですからまそういう意味で普通に考えれば

play00:24

その全部飛行かないと思うんですけど多分

play00:26

ここら辺でまさに押したり引いたりが

play00:28

始まってしまっていてうん結果的にこれで

play00:31

一部になったとしてもこれで終わって

play00:33

しまっていけないんであってま本ここの

play00:35

議論じゃないはずですけどねうんそれより

play00:36

先の議論ということです公開非公開の議論

play00:39

をするんだったら初めから証人喚問して

play00:41

いれば証人喚問は当然公開ですからまそう

play00:44

いう意味では場の設定が理心じゃなくてま

play00:47

証人官房でまある意味最初から場を設定し

play00:50

たが良かったというのが私のあの意見です

play00:51

けどたださん今も競技が続いて

play00:54

るってことでこれ本当に明日精できるん

play00:57

ですかもうあの先週からあこの水木という

play01:01

日程は出てたんではい常識的には国会の

play01:03

常識的にはこれやる方向なんですけどうん

play01:07

あの我々記者としてももう当然そうだと

play01:09

思ってたんですが本当に現場今大混乱で

play01:12

先ほどの速も出てましたけどあれまた野党

play01:15

が蹴ってますからまだ決まってないで前の

play01:18

日の夕方までこんなことが決まらないって

play01:21

ちょっと入れにもほがあるという感じでで

play01:24

これ自民党の中からすらですね今もう王場

play01:27

際が悪いという声もう本当にうん

play01:29

レーションは満してますね少しあの自民党

play01:32

側も一部公開ということでただ冒頭のみ

play01:36

カメラ撮影OK少しずつ情報はしてます

play01:39

けどもどうして全部公開とはしないんです

play01:42

か本当にわかんないんですけどあの嫌がっ

play01:46

てる方は本当に嫌がってるみたいですね

play01:49

あのこの中のお2人はですねあの構わない

play01:53

と言ってるようなんですが残る3人の方は

play01:57

本当にま何か困ることががあるのかどうか

play02:00

分かりませんけれどもお嫌がってると本気

play02:03

で嫌がってるということでまこの中には

play02:07

ですねもう複数の方記者会見までしてる方

play02:09

もいますんでそうそうそうそうそう変わら

play02:11

ないじゃんていうことなんですいやそうな

play02:14

んですこれもすでに記者会見しておられる

play02:16

方が同じことを言う可能性高いですから

play02:20

抑えてくべきことは成林心はま公開非公会

play02:23

もあるけどもっと大きな論点は偽罪の制裁

play02:26

ないんですよ仮に嘘をついてもうん

play02:30

ポイントでまそういう場でどこまで相が

play02:33

できるかというのは本当に花疑問ですから

play02:36

うん泉さん元々国会議員でいらっしゃい

play02:38

ましたけれども何がそんなに嫌なんだろう

play02:40

なというのがこう推測されましいやそこは

play02:43

本人に聞かない分かりませんけどただ今回

play02:45

の様子見ていて私感じるのは昔ながらの

play02:48

古いまさに政治が続いてることは本当残念

play02:50

に思っていて結局予算との引き換えみたい

play02:53

の議論ですやんか本当は国民生活考えた

play02:56

予算予算でしっかり議論をしこの政も

play02:58

しっかり議論べなだうんだから私なんかは

play03:01

もう理心どこじゃなくて第3者調査委員会

play03:04

を作ってそこでしっかり委ねた上で国会

play03:06

議員は本来の政治家としての議論を予算

play03:09

審議してほしいと思うのでもっと昔ながら

play03:11

のこういったお合いへし合いじゃなくて

play03:13

ですねちゃんと分けてやったらいいと私は

play03:15

思いますけどねはいまその中でこう指導権

play03:18

を取れるとしたら岸田総理だと思うんです

play03:20

けども岸田総理としてはうんえこのように

play03:25

述べていましたね適切に国会でご判断さ

play03:27

れると考えているとまある人言のようにも

play03:31

感じるんですけども泉さんこういった発言

play03:33

見てどうですかいやま私はね逆に岸田総理

play03:36

に期待してるんですよやっぱりなんやかん

play03:38

や言ってもトップの決断ってのは大きい

play03:40

ですからある意味岸田総理が思い切って

play03:42

誠意と仮のもについても思い切った決断を

play03:45

くし加えて国民生活を救うについても

play03:48

思いきった決断を果たせばいいと思うので

play03:50

結局は決断できる政治だと思うので記総理

play03:53

本当に苦手なこととかちょっと嫌なことは

play03:55

こう任せてしまうのでやっぱりソダという

play03:58

のは決断する人だとうん期待したいです

play04:00

けどね知さんあの岸田総理が公開しようと

play04:03

思ってるのか非公開にしたいと思ってるの

play04:05

かこれはどっちなんですあそうですねあの

play04:07

まこれ昨日の国会のやり取りですけども

play04:09

もう1つ岸田総理ですねあのま過去にこの

play04:12

完全非公開は1回だけだとはいこれですね

play04:15

完全飛公会長い歴史の中でも過去1回しか

play04:17

なかったこれあの昨日の発言の中であり

play04:20

まして要するに木田さんの本音としては

play04:22

もう公開してちゃんと説明席に果たして

play04:24

欲しいってのは本音なんですよただうん

play04:27

だったら総裁としてもうちょっとリ発揮し

play04:30

てくれていいんじゃないのていうのは多分

play04:31

みんな思ってることででそのあの自民党の

play04:34

関係者も総理の本音が見えないでもっと

play04:37

言ってくれればいいのにというところあり

play04:38

ますねあのもちろんその精錬心っていうの

play04:41

がそのま自発的なものですんで上からこう

play04:43

抑えつけて何かっていうことはないという

play04:45

部分あるにしてもですねまこれが本音なん

play04:48

だとすればもうちょっというところだと

play04:49

思います言っときたいんです今この成林書

play04:52

を開いたところで公開したところで説明

play04:54

責任をこれで果たしたと言えないと思い

play04:56

ますし全解明なんてまだまだですからこで

play04:59

論うんを打ち切ってはいけないと私は思い

play05:00

ますね井さん今後どういったことを1番

play05:02

必要になってくると思いますあ国民的に

play05:04

言えばやっぱ全員を解明して全員を解明し

play05:07

た後にちゃんと叱るべき責任を取るべき方

play05:10

が責任を取るそして再発こんなことない

play05:13

ようにちゃんとした対策を取るとでその

play05:15

前提は全容解明ですからやっぱり全容解明

play05:18

は必要だと思いますよで今回の生理心で

play05:20

全容解明できると思ってる国民はまずい

play05:22

ないでしょうからまこれはあくまでも突破

play05:24

校スタートに過ぎないと思いますね

play05:26

まだまだこの議論はやる必があると思い

play05:28

ますそのま突破校の1つであるこの成林心

play05:32

からその後ま例えば参考人承知であったり

play05:34

証人科とかそういったとこにもついてい

play05:36

くっていうこと私はそもそも最初から憲法

play05:39

62条に基づくえまさに承認喚問すれば

play05:42

良かったと思うのでもうさそこですしただ

play05:45

証人喚問したところで記憶にございません

play05:48

と言われて大体終わってしまうケースが

play05:50

多いのでやはり第3者にしっかりと全用

play05:53

解明の調査をちゃんと国会が設置してやっ

play05:56

てもらうでそれをしっかりやりてもらえな

play05:58

国会議は国会としてうん本来の予算審議と

play06:01

か法律を作るとで加えて対策も第3者に

play06:04

委ねて作ってその投資を受けてやらないと

play06:07

公会議員自身が自分の首を占めるような

play06:10

まさに崩壊者しますかと議論ですからま

play06:12

かつてあのまさにクルト事件の時に第3者

play06:15

に委ねてその投資を受けて選挙制度変えた

play06:18

経緯もありますからかつてちゃんと日本も

play06:20

やってきてるんで逆に昔よりも交代してる

play06:23

ような感じがしますねま今出てますけれど

play06:25

も政治倫理審査会と証人官にはまこのよう

play06:28

になどの違いがある強さの違いがあると

play06:32

いうことですよねそもそも私も弁護士です

play06:34

けどお金の貸管の裁判でも当然全員先制を

play06:38

して義象すると罰せられるのが当たり前で

play06:41

あって嘘をついても許されるなんてことは

play06:43

普通ないんであって逆に精錬心が非常に

play06:45

例外的な状況だと思うのでここは抑えて

play06:47

おいた方がいいと思いますねその中で成林

play06:50

士も明日となってる状態で明日どういった

play06:53

こと一番求めます明日がゴールじゃなくて

play06:55

明日がスタートなんですよ精が23日開い

play06:59

たからん

play07:01

なでまー過ないとのり議論を続てくきだと

play07:06

私は思いはいえここまで泉さんそして者に

play07:09

話を聞きましたありがとうございました

play07:11

ありがとうございまし

play07:13

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